posted by RRRGroup at
Saturday, May 10, 2014
These documents actually comprise 3 different reports from the field HQ in San Francisco to the Pentagon, on 3 different days (Jan. 4th, 23rd, and 25th) and all have different levels of classification. I don’t see any reason to think the content of any one of them is related to the content of any other one. The discussion of Japanese balloons (presumably Fugos) was classified "restricted" which, at the time was the lowest classification available, whereas the discussion of “unidentified aircraft” over the Manhattan Project site was classified "secret" which was two levels higher, and exceeded only by "top secret". This is a good indication of the relative importance they put on the two subjects.
By Larry, at Saturday, May 10, 2014
On the other side of the argument, these "unidentified aircraft" did appear near the peak of the Fugo balloon campaign. And, the US military had a counter program in place to try to shoot them down (without much success). Since the 4th Air Force was aware of this, one would think that they would refer to them as suspected Japanese balloons rather than "unidentified aircraft". The critical piece of information missing here is the results of the radar tracking that is mentioned in one of the memos. If they were detected at stratospheric altitudes and windspeeds then it would be pretty good indication that these were Fugo balloons. If detected at lower altitudes, not so likely.
Later Hanford would become a matter of interest in one of the gloomier corners of ufo history according to some ufo writers. Maury Island.Thanks to Mr Caravaca for the link.RegardsDon
By Don, at Saturday, May 10, 2014
I'm continually flummoxed by the lack of interest in the United States Navy when it comes to UFOs.The Navy has been involved, as noted in these documents, before 1947, and ever since, when one examines the records....that is, while the Navy's participation in or research of UFO sightings is subliminal, it is, nonetheless, omnipresent.RR
By RRRGroup, at Saturday, May 10, 2014
Rich: "I'm continually flummoxed by the lack of interest in the United States Navy when it comes to UFOs."NOTE: According to Wikipedia NICAP was founded by Thomas Brown, physicist, who joined the USN in 1930, and worked for the NDRC and the OSRD and later Lockheed.On the board of NICAP were Major Donald Keyhoe (USMC, Ret.) and former chief of the Navy’s guided missile program RADM Delmer S. Fahrney USN (Ret.)NOTE: The above is from WikipediaI sometimes wonder if NICAP and Keyhoe were an attempt by the USN to 'shake something loose' from the USAF about UFOs.Regards,Don
By Don, at Sunday, May 11, 2014
Death by balloon...http://www.findingdulcinea.com/news/on-this-day/May-June-08/On-this-Day--Japanese-WWII--Balloon-Bomb--Kills-Six-in-Oregon.html
By Bruce Duensing, at Sunday, May 11, 2014
RE: Navy ShenanigansIts interesting to explore the history of the relationship between advanced avionics research and the US Navy’s military contractors More than a few retired Navy admirals make a seamless transition into positions of authority in these firms that develop advanced propulsion systems which seems somewhat counter intuitive. Nick Cook of Jane’s Aviation has written about this regarding zero point gravitational propulsion research. Seems an odd choice or recruitment considering the USN has no space program even if it were a case of buying insider influence for contracts. The Navy is not above concocting fibs. I am in contact with WW2 historians and researchers on post war landings of U-boats in Argentina and it seems they changed the testimony that came from interrogations of the captain and crew. Then again, many years later, one captain changed his story line. All this is very much like the murk of X craft.
Bruce: "Seems an odd choice or recruitment considering the USN has no space program even if it were a case of buying insider influence for contracts."They had wanted one in the postwar period, and were in competition with the army and the nascent air force for funding which was being withdrawn by congress, with the immanent danger of a collapse in military funding.The navy had good reasons, as well, for pursuing funding for aerospace, at least, to my knowledge into 1952. Consider a ship's captain's concern to extend into the waters beneath his ship and into the sky above it -- extensively so from WWII on.With the formation of the USAF, the US Army secured its need for air support for ground operations by turning to helicopters, but the Navy and its Marine Corps kept their air wings.Regards,Don
DonThe transfer of USN hotshots to private aerospace industry occurred after that date of transfer to USAF which makes it odder in my book. It may be something or nothing..
The claim that the US Navy had (or has) no space program is false; it’s just that 99% of the Navy program is classified and therefore out of public sight. In the early days of the space race the Navy was developing space launchers and spacecraft along with the Air Force, the Army and (as it turned out) the CIA and NASA. The Vanguard launcher—a Navy design--was supposed to be the launcher for the International Geophysical Year in which the US would launch its first satellite into orbit. The Naral Research Lab (in Washington, DC) was responsible for both the launcher design and the spacecraft design.As soon as it became clear that the US was going to compete all-out in both the national security and the civilian space races (and therefore large sums of money were at stake), the inevitable “roles and responsibilities” fight began among all the various players to settle who would get to spend money on what programs. The Navy ended up losing the battle to build its own launch vehicles, but never lost the battle to build (or buy) its own spacecraft (even though it continues to fight that battle with the Air Force to this day).The CIA was the first US agency to (secretly) field an operational “spy” satellite—the Corona program in 1959. When the overhead photos started streaming into the national security community, there began an immediate battle over which Soviet targets had priority. The CIA’s interest was to quantify the general status of the Soviet Union—how many tanks and trucks were rolling out of the factories, what the wheat harvest was like, etc. The Air Force thought this was a waste of resources; they wanted information that would help them plan and execute an atomic war—like how many bomber and fighter aircraft were deployed, and where, etc. The Navy wanted to know how many ships were at sea, where they were located, etc.The secret agreement was to allow all three agencies to each have their own, independent space program. In the open budget discussions, the programs were simply referred to as “Program A”, “Program B”, and “Program C”, where A was the Air Force, B was the CIA, and C was the Navy. For the decades of the cold war, Program C was of comparable size to the others, and concentrated on fielding spacecraft to provide functions that were unique to the Navy’s mission: ocean surveillance, secure communications with ships and submarines, monitoring of sea ice and sea state, etc. The very large space systems like radar satellites were procured under highly classified contracts from the large aerospace companies like Hughes, but the NRL has maintained to this day the ability to design, build, and operate “special” spacecraft out of their Washington DC campus. They have a reputation inside the professional community as one of the best places to go for one-of-a-kind, “special” (i.e., deep black) skunkworks type space projects.
By Larry, at Sunday, May 11, 2014
LarryIf you knew me personally, you would know that I have learned to never say never and I should have done ( as always ) a better job of expressing myself. I meant to say official space program. The reason I say this is that is that I know they are actively doing gravitational research due to publically published papers on this.In addition, the division between the Army and Navy research on gravity programs is not neatly divided. They have one paper I know of.. that they co-authored.These programs are coordinated by a civilian organisation ( Aerospace Research Laboratory ) and are promoted by an odd little organisation called The Gravity Research Foundation. ARL was the outfit that Nick Cook of Jane’s Aviation tried to dig into and his interview was abruptly cancelled at the last minute.If you think this is the stuff of cranks etc, all you need to do is see who submits papers to them which is a who’s who of well known physicists. I didnt want to sidetrack from the original subject but I suppose I did..lol. Further, there is an interesting published research program involving satellite electromagnetic propulsion but last I read they are still figuring out how to control it. The drive itself has already been successfully tested here on Earth.
By Bruce Duensing, at Monday, May 12, 2014
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