The UFO Iconoclast(s)

Saturday, November 30, 2013

The Amorality of UFOs

Copyright InterAmerica, Inc 
When one studies the panoply of flying chariot, flying saucer, and UFO sightings, from early times (and recounted in religious texts, including those in the Hebrew Bible or Old Testa- ment, the Hindu texts, and Oriental annals) right up through the modern era, one is struck by the non-inter- cession in human affairs, especially those that show the incipient evil of mankind, by the phenomenon. 
History is replete with the absence of God in mankind’s horrors, and UFO lore also shows that the ubiquitous phenomenon has not been in attendance when evils have occurred, on scales that any interplanetary expedition could not miss:
The Armenian Genocide (Armenian: Հայոց Ցեղասպանություն Hayots’ Ts’yeghaspanut’yun), also known as the Armenian Massacres and by Armenians as the Great Crime (Armenian: Մեծ Եղեռն Mets Yegherrn) was the Ottoman government's systematic extermination of its minority Armenian subjects from their historic homeland in the territory constituting the present-day Republic of Turkey. It took place during and after World War I and was implemented in two phases: the wholesale killing of the able-bodied male population through massacre and forced labor, and the deportation of women, children, the elderly and infirm on death marches to the Syrian Desert.The total number of people killed as a result has been estimated at between 1 and 1.5 million. Other indigenous and Christian ethnic groups such as the Assyrians, the Greeks and other minority groups were similarly targeted for extermination by the Ottoman government, and their treatment is considered by many historians to be part of the same genocidal policy.
It is acknowledged to have been one of the first modern genocides, as scholars point to the organized manner in which the killings were carried out to eliminate the Armenians, and it is the second most-studied case of genocide after the Holocaust. The word genocide was coined in order to describe these events. [From Wikipedia]
The Holocaust (from the Greek ὁλόκαυστος holókaustos: hólos, "whole" and kaustós, "burnt") also known as Shoah (Hebrew: השואה, HaShoah, "the catastrophe"; Yiddish: חורבן, Churben or Hurban, from the Hebrew for "destruction"), was the mass murder or genocide of approximately six million Jews during World War II, a program of systematic state-sponsored murder by Nazi Germany, led by Adolf Hitler and the Nazi Party, throughout the German Reich and German-occupied territories.
Of the nine million Jews who had resided in Europe before the Holocaust, approximately two-thirds were killed. Over one million Jewish children were killed in the Holocaust, as were approximately two million Jewish women and three million Jewish men. A network of over 40,000 facilities in Germany and German-occupied territory were used to concentrate, hold, and kill Jews and other victims.
Some scholars argue that the mass murder of the Romani and people with disabilities should be included in the definition, and some use the common noun "holocaust" to describe other Nazi mass murders, including those of Soviet prisoners of war, Polish and Soviet civilians, and homosexuals. [From Wikipedia] 
There are the bombings Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and today the Syrian conflict, the past and  (ongoing) genocidal African “wars”:
The Rwandan Genocide was a genocidal mass slaughter of the Tutsis by the Hutus that took place in 1994 in the East African state of Rwanda. Over the course of approximately 100 days (from the assassination of Juvénal Habyarimana and Cyprien Ntaryamira on April 6 through mid-July) over 500,000 people were killed, according to a Human Rights Watch estimate of the death toll have ranged from 500,000–1,000,000, or as much as 20% of the country's total population. [From Wikipedia]
The Babylonian exile of the Hebrews [circa 587 B.C.], at a time when flying “chariots” were rife in the texts, and going back to the extinction of the Neanderthals, about 30,000 years ago, when cave drawings and pictographs seem to indicate something odd was flying in Earth’s sky, one gets no clue that anyone or anything interceded.
The phenomenon, like God, remained aloof and disinterested, from a moral standpoint.
There are some reading this who will ascribe that indifference to a like kind of scrutiny that scientists engage in when studying ants, or other insect life, or African animals and other fauna.
Then there are those who think UFOs do not exist so my conjecture is remiss in its premise.
But assuming that UFOs and the disks before them contained sentient beings, as some texts indicate (the lost books of Enoch, or the Ezekiel scripture) and the behavior of UFOs in our time show intelligent maneuvering, one has to conclude that any sentience involved is amoral.
That is, the total decimation of human species is something of no concern to visitors from space or time.
What do UFO enthusiasts of the ET persuasion have to say about this?
What do UFO skeptics have to offer about man’s inhumanity to man, leaving UFOs out of the equation? (Yes, that is not a UFO-based topic – off topic here – but of interest to see if UFO skeptics are as disinterested as the UFO creatures seem to be in my suggestion.)
RR  

40 Comments:

  • You hit the nail with these deductions. I've studied UFOs for yrs. and came to the very same conclusios as yourself. In fact a gov't funded study by the Colins Elite came to the only realization possible, i.e. these "things" are evil beyond our ability to understand evil. 2--They are interdimentional and do not and could not originate from other planets. 3-- They have an agenda of lies and deception.

    By Blogger stubrollay, at Saturday, November 30, 2013  

  • Why attach attributes to the supposed alien visitors that are similar to ours?

    You can just as easily say that if there were a God he would never have allowed the Phillippines typhoon to occur, or the tsunami of late 2004.

    Of course God is good, because we on earth WANT him to be good. But what if he is evil? Nobody will ever dare utter such a thing. In the same way, nobody wants to suggest the alien visitors could be evil. Even when they are alleged to abduct unborn babies from earthly mothers.

    We are all mixed up on earth - good, bad and in-between. Perhaps the aliens are also. Perhaps even God is a bit mixed up.

    Perhaps I should pipe down before I start a war of words!

    By Blogger cda, at Sunday, December 01, 2013  

  • The same argument is made towards God, and leaves one to draw one of three basic conclusions (assuming one posits the existence of an "Other"):

    1. The "Other" (fill in the blank here with God, space aliens, cosmic consciousness, whatever) has no interest in us whatsoever, as much as we might like to believe otherwise. In this sense it is neither moral nor amoral, anymore than we are moral nor amoral in our dealings with ants. We just don't register for them.

    2. The "Other" does have an interest in us, but believes in the primacy of free will. In short, they are Arminians, not Calvinists. Occasionally, however, they do provide us with guidelines / inspiration etc. (Jesus and Bach, in different ways) to help us see that we are all the same, but they won't force us to that conclusion, and as terrible as we might see something as the Holocaust as being, they take a much longer term perspective. They won't intervene to "save" us from ourselves in any one given instance.

    3. The Other does have an interest in us, but in an amoral sense as you suggest - content simply to observe us as if we were lab rats in an experiment.

    I think people will pick one of these options largely based on their own view of how the world works. I'm an optimist and a believer in the basic goodness of human nature, so I choose option #2.

    Paul

    By Blogger Paul Kimball, at Sunday, December 01, 2013  

  • Fellows:

    For me, God is Evil. (I use the Jungian/Gnostic concepts.)

    And Free Will is moot -- for me.

    I see Determinism everywhere.

    But those things aside, even with Free Will intact and operative, how could a God or a UFO occupant stand by (as it were) and watch such horrendous decimation of human life take place without intervening -- in some discriminate, creative, way that doesn't necessarily disclose the intervention or thing intervening?

    That is amoral -- even evil as stubrollay writes.

    I have numerous back-ups of my views at the RRRGroup blog, one recently about God, as an Evil or psychotic/insane thing.

    UFO "occupants" likewise....or a creation (reality) that is oblivious to morality and sense.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Sunday, December 01, 2013  

  • in some discriminate, creative, way that doesn't necessarily disclose the intervention or thing intervening?

    If it doesn't disclose the intervention, then how do you know that ultimately at some point "it" hasn't intervened? ;-)

    By Blogger Paul Kimball, at Sunday, December 01, 2013  

  • P.S. Let me add that you're defining "morality" as we would define it (or at least some of us). Who knows what an alien race or super-advanced being would view as "moral" in the grand scheme of things. They may view, for example, a balance between good and evil (or at least what we would define as good and evil) as the ultimate in morality. How would any of us know?

    Of course, chuchy philosophical discussions aren't much solace for the people looking down the barrel of a gun, or starving, and we do nothing really to help them, so we're just as amoral as God / space aliens are.

    By Blogger Paul Kimball, at Sunday, December 01, 2013  

  • Paul:

    That no intervention took place is obvious on the face of it: millions were consumed, innocent and reprobate alike.

    As for an alien morality, there seems to be none, if UFOs are ET loaded.

    But absent ET, we are immersed in an evil reality, one that disposes of human beings and other life on Earth as if its meaningless.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Sunday, December 01, 2013  

  • But it's not obvious, Rich - well, at least in the airy-fairy theoretical sense in which we are talking... Indeed, all of the things that you mentioned ended at some point. How and why? Maybe there was an intervention once the "Others" finally saw that we weren't going to intervene ourselves. Maybe that intervention took the form of directly influencing the minds of our leaders to actually do something - how do I know?

    This is all amusing, of course, but it's also useless. As my friend Aaron Gulyas said in The Chaos Conundrum (and I paraphrase here), if God behaved like we expect him to (and the same would presumably apply to super advanced space aliens), then He wouldn't be God.

    Our sense of morality, and perspective, might not be definitive in the grand scheme of things.

    PK

    By Blogger Paul Kimball, at Sunday, December 01, 2013  

  • Paul has invoked my name and, Beetlejuice-like, I appear... and hopefully maintain some relevance to this conversation!

    I address this, somewhat tangentially, in Chaos Conundrum in connection to the Exopolitics movement which I think is relevant to this discussion because many of that crowd attribute benevolent characteristics to the (assumed/believed exist) ETs. This "prime directive" style noninterference which RR observes and which many Exopols report is part of the philosophy of these visitors.

    If we are to view these benevolent space folks as parental, guiding figures then we're screwed, because they're negligent parents. If I let my son play next to a campfire, and watch him fall in because I'm exercising a philosophy of noninterference, then I'm going to prison, and rightly so.

    Of course, if the darker visions of what the ETs are and want are true, then this standing by and (maybe?) savoring our disasters makes more sense. In both cases, as many have noted, we're anthropomorphizing these beings to a great degree.

    Hopefully this didn't distract from the entertaining philosophical discussion taking place here. Now, back to grading exams...

    By Blogger AJG, at Sunday, December 01, 2013  

  • Of course, AJG,

    UFOs are tangential to Earthlings. merely an inconsequential phenomenon, as I've striven to assert here over the years.

    But should that not be the case, then we are right to indict UFOs for their non-intervention(s), just as we are right to indict God for being "dead."

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Sunday, December 01, 2013  

  • Aaron (or should I call you Beetlejuice):

    Your analogy of you and your child is interesting, but I'm not sure it's completely applicable to space aliens.

    Yes, you would intervene to save your young son, and we would expect you to, because he is your son. But would you intervene to save the lives of the sons of some poor Somali? Would you advocate the use of force, i.e. imposing our values on them, in order to do so? Would you risk you and yours to see good done everywhere?

    That's the real question, and I think the answer for most of us is a resounding "no." Unless we are the direct offspring of the space aliens, I don't think we can expect anything more of them than we would expect of ourselves.

    Now, "God" is an entirely different matter, as we are supposedly his children and he does indeed seem pretty hands-off. But ask yourself - would we want it any other way? Would we not view a God that intervened in our affairs to "save us" as just as bad - and maybe even worse - than one who let us make, and solve, our own problems?

    I just think this is all a little more nuanced than the good / evil dichotomy that Rich has presented, which I find overly simplistic (no offense meant to Rich - a blog is a lousy place to discuss philosophy in any depth).

    PK

    By Blogger Paul Kimball, at Sunday, December 01, 2013  

  • Ah, before AJG intervenes (!) and makes sense of this, let me say that the God is Evil view is simplistic, because it is so blatant.

    God has been Evil since time immemorial, if the religious texts are anywhere true.

    On the face of it, Paul, God (or even evolution) has dealt badly with the human species (and even the flora and fauna of this planet).

    There is no sugar-coating it, although you Protestant types like to do so, never showing Jesus being crucified, just an empty cross....the horror not for anyone's eyes.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Sunday, December 01, 2013  

  • I'm an agnostic, and I'm as well versed as the horrors we have visited upon ourselves as anyone else, having studied them for years (particularly the 20th century). But speaking only for myself here, if there is a God, or space aliens, I don't want them to intervene and save us. If we can't / won't save ourselves, then we're not worth saving.

    All of which would probably make me a lousy parent, but it makes me an intellectually consistent free will humanist.

    PK

    By Blogger Paul Kimball, at Sunday, December 01, 2013  

  • An intellectually consistent free-will humanist is no bad thing, in the human scheme of things, Paul.

    But us fallen Catholics (and former Jesuitical seminarians) are more disposed to find fault with a God (of UFOs) that refuse to act on our behalf -- on humankind's behalf.

    We are treated no better than the dinosaurs.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Sunday, December 01, 2013  

  • As a final comment, to show that from time to time I agree with you, here are the lyrics from a song called "Up There" I wrote back in the 1990s when I was still a musician - proof that we all question God from time to time, even those of us who aren't sure he exists:

    I circle your star
    waiting to put out its light
    and pull you down
    from your castle in the sky,
    join us here, won't you
    come feel our pain first hand
    maybe then you'll understand.

    The circumstances of our
    existence must bore you so
    but there's so many things
    I think you need to know,
    why won't you come down
    come feel our pain and despair
    and see what it's like
    to live down here.

    Why have you forsaken us?

    By Blogger Paul Kimball, at Sunday, December 01, 2013  

  • Paul,
    I agree with your assessment above--actually, if I'd fully assimilated my morning caffeine before hitting publish, I'd have gone in a similar direction.

    My issue is that some within the Exopolitics movement, by portraying the space people as a paternal (or at least fraternal) force (as did the Contactees before them) invite these kinds of critiques; one of the several deficiencies of their approach.

    For more on Contactees, pick up my Extraterrestrials and the American Zeitgeist, now sensibly priced in a variety of e-book formats! (Still learning this "marketing" thing...)

    By Blogger AJG, at Sunday, December 01, 2013  

  • AJG:

    Self promotion? Off-topic, sort of?

    Oh my...

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Sunday, December 01, 2013  

  • Aaron,

    I agree that:

    1. The Contactees and the Exopols are out to lunch in their portrayal of any prospective space aliens as the saviours of humanity. It just doesn't hold water logically.

    2. You and I are clearly trying to avoid doing real work this morning. :-)

    PK

    By Blogger Paul Kimball, at Sunday, December 01, 2013  

  • I'll get my coat...

    By Blogger AJG, at Sunday, December 01, 2013  

  • And if there were "moral" spacemen, spirits and what have you...what is it exactly you would want them to do? Pathologically control everything under the sun for our benefit? The whole premise of morality in anomalies is,in my book pure rubbish."pouring from the empty into the void".A tea party for would be fascists, all in the name of the nebulous the presumption of denial..not looking at the fact you can drive a truck through the holes in any prescription for human behavior outside of the self.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Sunday, December 01, 2013  

  • Rich:

    You are—consciously or unconsciously, I don’t know which—attributing the God-like powers of omnipotence, omniscience, and omnipresence to your supposed UFO aliens.

    If you attribute those qualities to any conscious being and then note that that being has not intervened in human history to prevent our more egregious atrocities against each other, then you come to the conclusion that that being is amoral (i.e., not concerned with our condition of good and evil).

    I would note that while there is some evidence for the occasional appearance of what we are calling UFO aliens, there doesn’t seem to be evidence for UFO aliens possessing any of those 3 God-like powers. They appear to know how to construct and operate vehicles that operate using the space-time warping of General Relativity. That makes them smarter than us, but not omniscient. Their vehicles can take them to places and times that we can’t access, but that doesn’t make them omnipresent. Their vehicles have powers that our vehicles don’t, but that doesn’t make them omnipotent.

    You need to stop and think about what it would take, in the way of resources, to stop a major genocide event. Whenever we humans have tried to do it, we’ve needed an intervention force that’s a large fraction of the size of the group that’s perpetrating it. One could argue that WWII was such an event.

    One of the most striking facts about UFO reports is that they are quite rare. I see no reason to assume that they have the ability to intervene in human history in a big way. If they don’t have the ability, then their lack of action does not imply lack of concern or interest. The fact that UFO aliens haven’t intervened to stop genocide may simply mean that they are not Gods.

    By Blogger Larry, at Sunday, December 01, 2013  

  • Bruce and Larry:

    Bruce would have us, or UFOs, or God do nothing in the face of Evil.

    Larry is right, UFO occupants, if there are any, are not Gods, but an appearance of a strange craft over the heads of Nazi soldiers killing obvious members of humanity, our species, would have given second thought to those Nazis.

    An intervention by God as discreet as preventing bullets from being released from guns when pointed at humans -- not other soldiers -- would have helped.

    And it seems within the power of the UFO occupants to do something like that too, if UFO reports of car motors being stalled or other electrical disturbances taking place are true.

    Fascism in the defense of humankind, Bruce, is no vice and the protection of innocent humans a virtue....whether you care of not is of no consequence.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Sunday, December 01, 2013  

  • Well, Rich, if they really cared then they would have imposed a socialist political and economic order where we had true equality of situation instead of the mythical equality of opportunity. But they have not... nor, am I guessing, would you want them to.

    But you're right about the technology, and Larry is dead wrong. Any species sufficiently advanced to get from "there" to "here" would be able to overwhelm any of our military systems - indeed, reports centered around nuclear facilities, if believed, show this to be true, as do the reported performance characteristics of the supposed craft.

    One can't have it both ways, positing that the aliens are advanced enough to travel between the stars, but not so advanced as to be unable to alter the course of human events should they choose.

    By Blogger Paul Kimball, at Sunday, December 01, 2013  

  • Rich
    "Doing nothing" is not what I said..having others prescribe for us is lunacy however..it must come from within not from without. Pretty simple stuff in my book.And what exactly are we doing and again the question is unanswered, what would you have them do? Dancing around presumptions.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Sunday, December 01, 2013  

  • BD...I'd have them or anyone, even God, do something disruptive....anything. The bigger the disruption, the better. (This is all fictive rumination of course.)

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Sunday, December 01, 2013  

  • Hi Bruce,

    The problem with your view is that it presumes we are able to make the decisions for ourselves. As Rich has pointed out (and as should be clear to anyone who has studied history), the record shows that we are not. We are selfish, warlike, and murderous (the exceptions only serve to prove the general rule).

    As Aaron has sort of pointed out, we make decisions for others all the time that would be analogous to advanced aliens vis-a-vis us - we make decisions for children until they mature, we make decisions for criminals until they reform, and we make decisions for those who are mentally incapacitated. I think the human race easily fits all three of those categories.

    Accordingly, one has to look at an advanced intelligence and come to the conclusion that it is either evil, as Rich seems to suggest, or amoral / indifferent.

    PK

    By Blogger Paul Kimball, at Sunday, December 01, 2013  

  • Wait... I've just contradicted myself. Damn it!

    By Blogger Paul Kimball, at Sunday, December 01, 2013  

  • But in a brilliant way Paul.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Sunday, December 01, 2013  

  • Paul
    I absolutely disagree with your point of view in regard to intellectual postulates,
    whether it is that our species can do nothing regarding our own behavior, or that we need a babysitter so we don't place a finger into an outlet. Man in the whole and man as an individual are two different creatures, the works of God and the works of Men...God is incommensurate, not similar to. Was God responsible for the death of my son at 21? You nor anyone else can answer this. Have you come face to face with death, as close as you can possibly get..come to the edge of death..otherwise this is all pedantic A topic for smoking jackets and brandy. Death is neither a punishment or a reward..all of you appear lodged in dualism and fantasies of a hermetically sealed existence where everything is skewed in favor of life..death is as a necessity as is life.Morality to this? I think the word is tossed around as if we understood what it is to practice spiritual chivalry.To be unable to say nothing in the face of ignorance is a human issue.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Sunday, December 01, 2013  

  • Bruce:

    You are truly screwed up about this.

    We're not talking about death, as it comes upon individuals, naturally or not.

    My post is about the imposition of death, prematurely or wrongly on the species in massive numbers.

    That you think humans (or UFOs or God, even) should stand by and allow the massive decimation of men, women, children, without attempting to stem that decimation is appalling to me.

    Death is a punishment....a final punishment, imposed upon mankind by a ruthless divinity or a ruthless evolutionary thrust.

    Your views about this are goofy!

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Sunday, December 01, 2013  

  • To say one is agnostic is to use the language of a poseur.You are in it and no amount of intellectualizing will remove suffering, another necessity of life. Some could not suffer if they paid a million dollars for it.Remorse? Doubt is a necessity,Is purgatory simply a fantasy? Is life a gift as well as death? I say yes, they both are. What would you replace them with? We all think we know better..we know nothing..zero.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Sunday, December 01, 2013  

  • Continued..
    Death is an imposition, whether it is intended to be or not. Death is neither here nor there..it's what we do with it. Paul says we can do nothing which is absurd..Human beings have always had the answer in their hands..they want nothing to do with answers..answers require suffering, doubt, at times..insanity..

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Sunday, December 01, 2013  

  • Bruce,

    I've had a loaded gun pointed at me by someone with the inclination to use it, and I've been in a car accident where death missed me by about an inch, so yes... I've looked the grim reaper square in his baby blues.

    PK

    By Blogger Paul Kimball, at Sunday, December 01, 2013  

  • Death is punishment? If so for what? Your views are as goofy as mine. An Insane God? You know this? Really? Oh please..it's time to move beyond this game of poses.Have at it.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Sunday, December 01, 2013  

  • Where did I say we can do nothing (I hate it when people misquote me, or don't read what I wrote). What I said is that as a rule, we haven't done anything (again, have a look at the 20th century for all the proof you need... and the 21st is so far just a continuation of the same). There is a huge difference there.

    But I'm with Rich on this - by human standards, any advanced being that allows us to murder millions is at best amoral and complicit, just as the West was when we let Rwanda burn, and at worst evil.

    The Contactees used to natter on about how the Space Brothers were here to save us from nukes. Well, if they really wanted to save us from nukes they would simply remove our ability to use them. They didn't. If they wouldn't do it during the Cuban Missile Crisis, the closest the world got to real Armageddon, then they're never going to do it. Whatever the reason, we're on our own.

    And we're doing a lousy job of it.

    PK

    By Blogger Paul Kimball, at Sunday, December 01, 2013  

  • Bruce...

    Yes, my views are goofy, but derived from concepts that others have suggested; e.g., God is Evil (Jung).

    You have a tendency to want to thwart conversation (comments) that you find personally irrelevant or objectively stupid.

    That's okay, for your blog, but not here.

    I open this place and use it myself for inane premises or goofy topics -- this being one of them.

    I always hope that, like my predilection for footnote, I (and others) will find something worthy of cogitation.

    And "insane God" is not unique to me,far from it.

    It's an epithet to encourage discussion.

    And if you don't see death as a punishment, when it occurs prematurely or unnaturally, I am shocked.

    The living are punished by death of a loved one, as you well know and have experienced.

    The dead one is punished by the cessation of life....what greater punishment is there?

    Poses? Socrates, Plato, Kirkegaard, Jaspers, even Sartre would find someone calling a discussion about death or the massive inhumanity of the Holocaust as a pose a little off intellectually.

    You are not that, so why persist in calling us poseurs for our dialogue here?

    Why?

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Sunday, December 01, 2013  

  • I will refrain from impolitic comments that disturb this serene game playing as opinion. At some point in my life this life no longer was a game, it was climbing a horrifically beautiful mountain fully aware that I am losing my bones along the way as everything must be paid for. Nothing is free, nothing has impunity, not even this little blog or my own. I will be a good boy and all of you can label God this or that to your hearts content.You need not publish this if it is too disturbing..you did desire to be disturbed as you said..or perhaps you do not. I am not going to fawn over other's opinions.I will hang a do not disturb sign here. There's no blood on the meat here. I should have let sleeping dogs lie.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Sunday, December 01, 2013  

  • Your input, Bruce, as unphilosophic as you would have it, would enhance the discussion.

    I'm surprised you are hesitant to take the bait.

    But I have my suspicions.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Sunday, December 01, 2013  

  • Rich
    I wish I could place the blame on God, on Extraterrestrials or simply avoid extremely tough issues that are close to home.
    SS colonel Duensing is one. The works of men..not Gods, not any other philosophic fallback or rationale can remove the overt and the buried blood on everyone's hands, then and now. That's why I used the term poseurs to discuss the many end runs around terrible and sickening events that met with silence. The same silence we of course ascribe to God.

    http://duensingamericana.blogspot.com/2010/04/ss-colonel-duensing.html

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Sunday, December 01, 2013  

  • b"h

    I grew up a naturalist (functionally atheist without the militancy) imbibing the brew that says death is the absolute end of an individual's existence. But it was the horrific world you folks have described above that led me in my early 20's to consider the possibility of a Judge who provides ultimate restitution for unjust human suffering and ultimate punishment for unrighteous cruelty to fellow beings. True, such ideas are faith-based and non-empirical. But as a recipient of several miraculous interactions, I have no doubt that there is a Just Creator who will rectify humanities wickedness at some point. This is essentially an eschatological question. Is there an eschaton or not? If not, then woe to us... For the record, I too have had a gun six inches from my face with the robber threatening its use.

    Best wishes

    By Blogger hetz barrur, at Friday, December 06, 2013  

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